Jesse Morrell Refutes Josef Urban (Part Two) - Original Sin / Sinful Nature / Born Sinners

“The doctrine of Original Sin: This core Christian belief states that all men enter this world with an inherently sinful nature and all men possess an inherent moral corruptness in their own flesh.” Quote

Josef, I know for a fact, teaches Gnosticism which says that our flesh is sinful. Some of his friends have confronted him on this but he has not repented. In Gnosticism, sin is not a choice of the will but a substance of the body. That is why Josef believes that we are sinners because of the type of body we inherit, and why he believes we cannot be morally perfect until we get a glorified body.

But the Bible does not teach that it is a sin to have flesh, or that our flesh is sin. It is sinful to live after the flesh (Rom. 8:13), or to live selfishly (Rom. 8:7). But it is not sinful to have flesh, since Jesus Christ had flesh (John 1:14; Luke 24:39; 1 Tim. 3:16). Nor do you need a glorified body to be morally perfect, because Jesus Christ was morally perfect (2 Cor. 5:21) before He had a glorified body (Luke 13:32).

The Gnostics denied that Jesus Christ came in the flesh because they believed that the flesh was sinful:

“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist…” 1 John 4:3

“For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.” 2 John 1:7

Sinfulness is not a substance of matter. Our flesh is not a sin in and of itself. We could use our body for sinfulness or we could use our body for righteousness:

“Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.” Rom. 6:13

“I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh, for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.” Rom. 6:19

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.” Romans 12:1

“And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly, and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” 1 Thes. 5:23

Sin is when we choose to gratify our flesh in an unnatural and forbidden way. Jesus Christ was tempted in the wilderness, not because he had a sinful nature or because his flesh was a sin, but because he had a natural desire for food (Matt. 4:3). Eve was tempted because of her natural God given desires (Gen. 3:6). Eve choose to gratify her God given flesh in a forbidden way. She had a natural desire for food and wisdom, but it was forbidden for her to gratify that desire by eating of the fruit.

God is the one who forms us in the womb (Gen. 4:1; Ex. 4:11; Isa. 27:11; 43:7; 49:5; 64:8; Jer. 1:5; Ps. 95:6; 139:13-14, 16; Ecc. 7:29; Job 10:9-11; 31:15; 35:10; Jn. 1:3) and that is why God is responsible for the condition of our flesh when we are born (Exodus 4:11). Men are not sinful because God has created us with a flesh. Men are sinful because they have chosen to violate God’s law. Sin is not a substance of matter, sin is the choice to transgress God’s law (1 Jn. 3:4).

“Now temptation is not sin. Temptation is the proposition presented to the mind that you can satisfy a good appetite in a forbidden way. Temptation leads to sin…. Sin is the decision of the will…. sin is the decision to gratify a good appetite in a bad way." Paris Reidhead (Finding the Reality of God, pg 141-142)

“Don’t mistake temptation for sin. Temptation is a suggestion to gratify a desire in an illegal way or amount. Temptation is not sin. Jesus was tempted.” Winkie Pratney (Youth Aflame, Bethany House, pg. 83).

“God created us to exist in a constant state of desire and appetite… The infant cannot think of terms of duty, responsibility, or moral choice…. The self-centeredness of infants has all the appearances of a vice. But they are acting on natural, God-given impulses to survive and seek their own pleasure…. They do not have the intellectual and moral capacity to say “No” to appetites and impulses. They cannot yet be held responsible. They begin life in innocent self-centeredness…. But the growing child or adult who doesn’t rise above self-indulging desires has fallen from God’s intention and design. The root of all sin is founded in runaway indulgence of God-given desires… Drives which are not in themselves evil, nonetheless, form the seedbed on which sin will assuredly grow… When does this innocent, natural selfishness of a child become sin? In other words, when is a child to blame? Keep in mind that a child will not come under condemnation until his moral faculties are fully operative… When a child goes against his conscience, however limited and incomplete his understanding may be, he is then guilty. The degree to which his understanding has developed is the degree to which his actions can be called sin…. As the body of flesh was the medium of Eve’s sin and of Christ’s temptation, so it is the implement of your child’s development into selfishness – which, at maturity, will constitute sinfulness.” Michael & Debi Pearl (To Train Up A Child, No Greater Joy, pg. 15-20)

“The bodily appetites and tendencies of body and mind, when strongly excited, become the occasions of sin. So it was with Adam. No one will say that Adam had a sinful nature. But he had, by his constitution, an appetite for food and a desire for knowledge. These were not sinful but were as God made them. They were necessary to fit him to live in this world as a subject of God’s moral government. But being strongly excited led to indulgence, and thus became the occasions of his sinning against God. These tendencies were innocent in themselves, but he yielded to them in a sinful manner, and that was his sin.” Charles Finney (You Can Be Holy, published by Whitaker House, p. 215).

"We have a nature that is capable of being perverted from legitimate to illegitimate, from the natural to the unnatural, from the pure to the polluted." Sin is to "pervert... natural, legitimate, human desires." F. Lagard Smith (Troubling Questions for Calvinists, page 134-135).

The Bible does not teach that men are born sinners. The Bible teaches that men are sinners by choice (Gen. 6:12, Ex. 32:7, Deut. 9:12, Deut. 32:5, Jdg. 2:19, Hos. 9:9, Ps. 14:2-3, Isa. 53:6, Ecc. 7:29, Rom. 3:23.) It is their own fault because it is their own choice, and therefore they deserve punishment and therefore they need Christ’s atonement and God’s mercy.

Infant children are morally innocent (2 Kng. 21:16; 24:4; Jer. 13:26-27; Ps. 106:37-38; Matt. 18:3) and have not yet “done anything” morally “good or evil” (Rom. 9:11) until the age of accountability, which is the age of reason, when they know right from wrong (Deut. 1:39; Isa. 7:15-16), and choose to do wrong (Jas. 4:17). Jesus said that if you were blind, you would have no sin. Since infants are morally blind, they have no sin.

Children do not inherit the guilt or sin of the parent: Deut. 24:16,2 Kng. 14:6, 2 Chron. 25:4, Jer. 31:29-30, Eze. 18:2-4, Eze. 18:19-20.

Sinners are separated from God for their own sin: Isa. 59:2; Lk. 15:24; Rom. 5:12; Rom. 7:9, Col. 2:13.

"If a man were created evil, he would not deserve punishment, since he was not evil of himself, being unable to do anything else than what he was made for.” Justin Martyr (First Apology Chap. 43)

“Those who do not do it [good] will receive the just judgment of God, because they had not work good when they had it in their power to do so. But if some had been made by nature bad, and others good, these latter would not be deserving of praise for being good, for they were created that way. Nor would the former be reprehensible, for that is how they were made. However, all men are of the same nature. They are all able to hold fast and to go what is good. On the other hand, they have the power to cast good from them and not to do it.” Irenaeus (A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 287, published by Hendrickson Publishers)

“If man is in fault for his [supposed] sinful nature, why not condemn man for having blue or black eyes? The fact is, sin never can consist in having a nature, nor in what nature is, but only and alone in the bad use which we make of our nature. This is all. Our Maker will never find fault with us for what He has Himself done or made; certainly not. He will not condemn us, if we will only make a right use of our powers – of our intellect, our sensibilities, and our will. He never holds us responsible for our original nature… since there is no law against nature, nature cannot be a transgression… man’s nature is not a proper subject for legislation, precept, and penalty, inasmuch as it lies entirely without the pale of voluntary action, or of any action of man at all.” Charles Finney (Sermons on Gospel Themes, p. 78-79, published by Truth in Heart)

“And lest, on the other hand, it should be thought to be nature's fault that some have been unrighteous, I shall use the evidence of the scripture, which everywhere lay upon sinners the heavy weight of the charge of having used their own will and do not excuse them for having acted only under constraint of nature.” Pelagius (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, p. 43, published by The Boydell Press).

"If anyone is truly religious, he is a man of God; but if he is irreligious, he is a man of the devil, made such, not by nature, but by his own choice." Ignatius (Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume One, p. 61)

“The Scriptures…emphasize the freedom of the will. They condemn those who sin, and approve those who do right… We are responsible for being bad and worthy of being cast outside. For it is not the nature in us that is the cause of the evil; rather, it is the voluntary choice that works evil.” Origen (A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs by David Bercot, p. 289, published by Hendrickson Publishers)

“All men are therefore sinners by nature” quote

Ephesians 2:2-3 says that we are by nature children of wrath, but in context this is talking a lifestyle of living for the flesh. Those who are selfish, those who live for the gratification of their flesh, are children of wrath. “By nature” simply means that they are choosing to live for their flesh, instead of living for God, instead of subjected their flesh to its proper place and presenting it to God for His service. The “natural man” is someone who lives for his flesh, instead of for God.

Charles Finney said, “To represent the constitution as sinful, is to present God, who is the author of the constitution, as the author of sin.” (Finney’s Systematic Theology, Bethany House, p. 261).

An unknown writer in the Early Church said, “… it is impious to say that sin is inherent in nature, because in this way the author of nature is being judged at fault.” (The Letters of Pelagius and his Followers by B. R. Rees, p. 168, published by The Boydell Press).

“To equate humanity with sinfulness is to make God the Author of His own worst enemy; to make God responsible for the thing that has brought Him unhappiness.” Winkie Pratney (Youth Aflame, Bethany House, pg. 78).

“The next dogma deserving attention is the position, that mankind derived from our first progenitor a corrupt nature, which renders obedience to the commands of God impossible, and disobedience necessary, and that for the mere existence of this nature, men ‘deserve God’s wrath and curse, ot only in this world, but in that which is to come.’ If the above dogma is true, it is demonstrably evident, that this corrupt nature comes into existence without knowledge, choice, or agency of the creature, who for its existence is pronounced deserving of, and ‘bound over to the wrath of God.’ Equally evident is it, that this corrupt nature exists as the result of the direct agency of God. He proclaims himself the maker of ‘every soul of man.’ As its Maker, He must have imparted to that soul the constitution or nature which it actually possesses. It does not help the matter at all, to say, that this nature is derived from our progenitor: for the laws of generation, by which this corrupt nature is derived from that progenitor, are sustained and continued by God himself… If, then, the above dogma is true, man in the first place, is held as deserving of eternal punishment for that which exists wholly independent of his knowledge, choice or agency, in any sense, direct or indirect, He is also held responsible for the result, not of his own agency, but for that which results from the agency of God.” Asa Mahan (Doctrine of the Will, published by Truth in Heart, p. 115).

Men are sinners because they choose to sin, not because of the flesh that they inherit from their parents. Sinners are criminals because of their choices, they are not victims of their circumstances.

It should also be noted that sin is contrary to our design, and our conscience demands obedience to God, and in this way sin is contrary to human nature. Our body naturally coughs when it first smokes a cigarette. Our body throws up and suffers a hang over when consuming alcohol. These sins are contrary to our design and are therefore against our nature. Men also naturally feel guilt and shame when they sin, which shows that our nature is against sin. The Bible says that homosexuals do that which is against nature (Rom. 1:26-27) and our conscience, which demands obedience to God, is part of our nature (Rom. 2:14-15).

“Homosexuals often cover and excuse their evil acts of perversion by saying that they were born homosexual. And if the teaching is true that men are born with a sinful nature, homosexuals are right to say they were born homosexuals. For they were born homosexuals if they were born sinners. Also they are right to excuse their evil actions of perversion. For is they were born sinners, they were born homosexuals; and if they were born homosexuals they can no more be blamed for their evil acts of perversion than the brute beasts can be blamed for being born brute beasts. Likewise the alcoholic cannot be blamed for his drinking if it true that he was born with the ‘disease of alcoholism’. In fact the murderer, the rapist, and all other sinners have a perfect and legitimate excuse for all their sins if they were born with a sinful nature. But God never excuses the murderer or the drunkard or the rapist or the homosexual or any other sinner for his sins. For God created al men with a good nature. All sin is a corruption of man’s nature, it is a perversion of man’s nature. It is rebellion against our nature – it is rebellion against the ‘law of God written in our hearts’ and against the God who has written his law in our hearts. No man is born a sinner. No man is born with the ‘disease of alcoholism’. No man is born a homosexual.” Alfred T. Overstreet (Over One Hundred Texts From The Bible That Show That Babies Are Not Born Sinners, pg. 8).

“Sin is never natural. It is horribly un-natural. Sin is never ‘human’. It is horribly in-human. Sin creates remorse, guilt, and shame; every time a man feels these three witnesses in his soul, they tell him sin is not natural. Even the simple lie-detector can tell us this. The whole body reacts adversely when a man sins… God never planned sin for man. It is the most un-natural thing in the moral Universe… Do not dare say sin is ‘natural’! God hates sin with perfect hatred; He loves humanity.” Winkie Pratney (Youth Aflame, Bethany House, pg. 78).

“The nature we are born with teaches us to reject evil and choose good…. Men must go against their nature to sin.” Alfred T. Overstreet (Over One Hundred Texts From The Bible That Show That Babies Are Not Born Sinners, pg. 6-7).

“and apart from redemption through the grace of Christ, are under the curse of the Law” quote

Agreed. But the law commands us to make certain choices, therefore those who choose contrary to the law are under the curse of the law. Men are not under the curse of the law because of the body or flesh that they have, since the law does not demand us to have a certain type of flesh neither does it forbid us from having a certain type of flesh.

“abide under the wrath of God” quote

Agreed. Those who are sinning are under the wrath of God, notwithstanding the atonement of Christ. While the atonement of Christ made it possible for God to turn away from His wrath without dishonoring or weakening His law, no man is actually saved from God’s wrath until they are converted. Men, after the atonement, are still under the wrath of God while they are sinning.

“are by nature children of wrath” quote

Agreed. Those who are choosing to live after their flesh, who are living for their own selfish gratification, are children of wrath. Anyone who chooses to be a sinner, who chooses to live for their flesh, is under God’s wrath.

“are dead in trespasses and sins” quote

Agreed. Sinners do not have a relationship with God, but are separated from Him, because they have personally chosen to sin. To be dead in sin means that you do not have a relationship with God (Luke 15:24). Sinners are separated from God for their own sin: Isa. 59:2; Lk. 15:24; Rom. 5:12; Rom. 7:9, Col. 2:13.

“do nothing that pleases God” quote

Agreed, because sinners are entirely selfish, they are living supremely for themselves, and God is not pleased with this. Sinners are carnally minded, which means that their purpose is to gratify their flesh, and this is violation of God’s law and does not please Him (Romans 8:6).

“and sin continually against God as a manifestation of the wicked sinful nature in their own hearts.” Quote

Sinners sin continually because of their own sinful character, not because of the nature, flesh, or body that they inherit. Sinners sin because of their own sinful hearts. The term “heart” in the Bible is a symbolic word used to describe man’s will. All sin comes out of the heart Jesus said (Matt. 15:19). The root of man, which brings forth fruit, is his own heart or will (Luke 6:43-45). God commands sinners to make unto themselves a new heart (Eze. 18:31), which means that He wants them to change the state of their will. God command men to change from having a disobedient will to an obedient will.

“The Bible teaches that we (commit acts of) sin because we’re sinners (by nature), not that we are sinners only because we (commit acts of) sin” quote

Disagree. Men are sinners because they sin. The definition of a sinner is someone who sins. Until you sin, you are not a sinner. Adam was not a sinner until he sinned. Eve was not a sinner until she sinned. Lucifer was not a sinner until he sinned.

Likewise, the Bible does not teach that men sin because they are servants of sin. The Bible teaches that men are servants of sin because they sin (John 8:34, Romans 6:16). Nobody serves sin until they choose to sin.

“that outward acts of sin are manifestations of the moral depravity of our own hearts.” Quote

Sin is not merely an action, sin is a state of the will. Men are sinners when they choose to have disobedient hearts, when they choose to have rebellious wills.

Outward actions of sin are the manifestations of the disobedient will or rebellious hearts of men. This is what Jesus taught in Luke 6:43-45. If our will (heart) is good, our life (fruit) will be good. But if our will (heart) is sinful, our life (fruit) will be sinful. Actions are the fruit of the will. The will is the cause, the actions are the effects. Good trees have good fruit, bad trees have bad fruit. Sinful actions are manifestations of sinful hearts. A sinful life is proof that a person is choosing to be selfish, that they have a selfish heart.

“Moral Government Theology and Jesse Morrell deny that this is true, and believe that all come into this world in a morally neutral state” quote

We inherit physical depravity from Adam (1 Cor 15:22), that is, we all physically die as a consequence of Adam’s sin because he was removed from the tree of life (Gen. 3:22).

But while physical depravity is hereditary, moral depravity is not, because moral depravity has to do with the will.

Infant children are morally innocent (2 Kng. 21:16; 24:4; Jer. 13:26-27; Ps. 106:37-38; Matt. 18:3) and have not yet “done anything” morally “good or evil” (Rom. 9:11) until the age of accountability, which is the age of reason, when they know right from wrong (Deut. 1:39; Isa. 7:15-16), and choose to do wrong (Jas. 4:17).

“and deny that all of Adam’s posterity died spiritually in Adam’s original sin in the beginning.”

Children do not inherit the guilt or sin of the parent: Deut. 24:16,2 Kng. 14:6, 2 Chron. 25:4, Jer. 31:29-30, Eze. 18:2-4, Eze. 18:19-20.

Sinners are separated from God for their own sin: Isa. 59:2; Lk. 15:24; Rom. 5:12; Rom. 7:9, Col. 2:13.

Men are not born dead in sins, they become morally depraved and relationally separated from God when they voluntarily choose to sin: Isa. 59:2, Lk. 15:24; Rom. 5:12, Rom. 5:14, Rom. 7:9, Rom. 7:11, Col. 2:13.

“Further, they declare that all sin is a choice and only a choice, and therefore all must make the choice to “stop sinning” and become morally perfect in order to be accepted by God.”

Repentance is the choice to stop sinning, it is a change of mind about breaking God’s law. Until a sinner repents, until they make this choice, they are not accepted by God. True repentance is not forsaking some sin, it is forsaking all sin. If a person does not forsake all sin, they do not forsake sin at all.

“If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from Heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land” (2 Chronicles 7:14).

“Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions, so iniquity shall not be your ruin… Cast away from you all of your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die… For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves and live ye” (Ezekiel 18:30-32).

“wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved” (Jeremiah 4:14).

“Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon” (Isaiah 55:7).

“He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy” (Proverbs 28:13).

“Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee” (Acts 8:22).

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent…. For the remission of sins…” (Acts 2:38).

“Repent, ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out…” (Acts 3:19).

“Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life” (Acts 11:18).

The Bible talks about “repentance to salvation…” (2 Corinthians 7:10).

“he believes that when a man chooses to stop sinning” quote

The Bible says that it is a choice to sin or not sin (Deut. 30:19; Isaiah 1:16; Rom. 6:13; Rom. 6:19; 1 Cor. 10:13; 1 Cor. 15:34; Eph. 4:26) Repentance is a change of mind about sinning. This change of mind results in a change of life. That is called the fruit of repentance (Matt. 3:8; Acts 26:20). If a person changes their mind about sinning, they will stop sinning. But they are later free to change their mind again and begin to sin again (Matthew 21:28-30; Ezekiel 3:20; 18:26-27; 33:18-19).

“that man can enter a state of sinless and moral perfection” quote

We cannot have physical perfection in this life (Php. 3:12) but we can have moral perfection in this life, or have a perfect heart (1 Kings 8:61; 1 Kings 11:4; 1 Kings 15:4). Since sin is not having a certain type of body, we do not need a new body to be free from sin. But sin is the intention of the heart, and therefore to be free from sin we simply need a new heart. Moral perfection is not getting a glorified body, moral perfection is having a pure heart of love (Matt. 5:48, Rom. 13:8). Since sin is transgression of the law (1 Jn. 3:4), but love is the fulfillment of the law (Gal. 5:14; James 2:8), the person who has a loving heart does not have any sin in their life, they are morally perfect. We cannot have glorification in this life, but we can be sanctified in this life (Acts 20:32; Acts 26:18; 1 Cor. 1:2; Hebrews 2:11; Heb. 10:10; Heb. 10:14; Jude 1:1).

“and must keep his right-standing with God based on his own works by maintaining such a state of sinless perfection.”

God only forgives those who turn away from their sin, and therefore we remain forgiven as long as we stay away from sin. If we return to our sin, we are returning to the broad road the leads to destruction. If anyone is sinning, they are on the broad road to destruction.

The Bible says that if a believer sins, they are not covered by the cross and are under the wrath of God (Heb. 10:26-31), but they can be restored through repentance. If backsliders repent (Lk. 13:3; Jas. 5:19-20) and seek forgiveness (Matt. 6:12; 1 Jn. 1:9), they can be restored (Ps. 51:9; Jer. 3:22; 4:1; Lk. 15:20; 22:32; Rom. 11:23; Jas. 5:19-20) unless they are apostates (Heb. 6:4-6; 2 Cor. 13:5; 2 Tim. 3:8; Titus 1:14-16), having grieved away the Spirit (Matt. 12:31-32; Eph. 4:30), having resisted (Acts 7:51) all possible influence (Heb. 6:4-6; 2 Tim. 3:8).

The Bible tells believers to pray for forgiveness if they sin (Matt. 6:12). Charles Finney said, “if Christians are not condemned when they sin, they cannot be forgiven, for forgiveness is nothing else than setting aside the penalty. And therefore, if they are not condemned, they cannot properly pray for forgiveness. In fact, it is unbelief in them to do so.” (Oberlin Evangelist, Justification, July 19, 1843)

The wrath of God is impartial (Ex. 32:33; Deut. 10:17; Rom. 2:9; 2 Cor. 10:6; Col. 3:25; 2 Pet. 1:17; 1 Jn. 3:15; Rev. 21:8; 22:15), so anyone who consciously or knowingly sins or rebels is under condemnation (Jn. 3:19; Rom. 1:18, 2:6-11; Heb. 10:26-31; 1 Jn. 3:8, 3:15, 3:20; 2 Jn. 1:9).

The notion of being positionally righteous but still practicing unrighteous is absolutely contrary to scripture (1 Jn. 3:7; 3:10). Such a concept is false doctrine and damnable heresy (2 Pet. 2:1; Jude 1:4-5). Jesus is the author of salvation to all them that obey Him (Heb. 5:9),

The Bible says that those who are going to Heaven are sanctified (Acts 20:32, 26:18; 1 Cor. 6:9-11).

The Bible says that those who are breaking God’s law not enter the Kingdom of God (1 Cor. 6:9-10; Gal. 5:19-21) but only those who keep God’s commandments will enter into Heaven (Matt. 7:21; Matt. 19:17; Rev. 22:14).

There is no salvation or forgiveness apart from repentance. If a believer sins, they must repent or perish (Luke 13:3, 5).

“if Christians are not condemned for one sin, they would not be for ten thousand, and that the greatest apostates could be saved without repentance. But what kind of a gospel is that? It would overthrow the entire government of God.” Charles Finney (Oberlin Evangelist, Justification, July 19, 1843)

“Now when any individual sins, he must be condemned till he repents, or forsake his sin…. Repentance is a hearty and entire forsaking of sin, and entrance upon obedience to God…. when one has truly repented, he is justified, and remains so just as long as he remains obedient, and no longer; and that when he falls into sin, he is as much condemned as any other sinner, because he is a sinner.” Charles Finney (Oberlin Evangelist, Justification, July 19, 1843)

The entire Bible repeatedly and abundantly teaches the doctrine of probation or conditional security for believers, or that salvation could be lost or forfeited by sin (Eze. 3:20-21; 18:18-31; 33:12-20; Matt. 6:14-15; 10:22; 24:13; 24:48-51; 25:1-13; Mk. 4:16-19; 13:13; Jn. 6:66; 8:31; 15:6; Acts 1:25; 11:23; 13:43; 14:22; Rom. 8:13; 11:20-23; 1 Cor. 3:16-17; 6:9-10; 9:27; 10:5-13; 15:1-2; Gal. 5:4-9; 5:19-21; 6:7-9; Col. 1:21-23; 1 Thes. 3:5; 3:8; 2 Thes. 2:3; 1 Tim. 1:5-6; 1:18-20; 3:6; 4:1; 4:16; 5:15; 2 Tim. 2:12; 4:9-10; Heb. 2:1; 2:3; 3:6; 3:8-15; 3:18-19; 4:1; 4:11; 4:14; 6:1; 6:8; 6:11-12; 6:15; 10:23; 10:26-31; 10:35-39; 12:14-15; 12:25; Jas. 1:13-16; 5:19-20; 2 Pet. 1:9; 2:20-22; 3:17; Rev. 2:4-7; 2:10-11; 2:17; 2:25-26; 3:2-5; 3:10-12; 3:16; 3:19; 3:20; 21:8; 22:15).

The Bible speaks of Christians who have departed from the faith (Matt. 18:21-34; 24:10; Mk. 4:17; Lk. 8:13; Jn. 6:66; Acts 1:25 w. Matt. 19:28; 2 Thes. 2:3; 1 Tim. 1:19; 4:1; 2 Tim. 3:8; 4:10; Heb. 3:12-15; 4:1-11; 6:6; 10:29; 2 Pet. 2:20-22; Jud. 1:5).

We have the example of the unforgiving servant who was forgiven of his unpaid debt, but then later had his debt reinstated because of his immoral conduct (Matt. 18:23-35). This parable clearly shows how the Lord can graciously pardon an individual and then later execute the punishment that they deserve.

We also see the example of the Apostle Judas who lost his salvation. Judas was a disciple of the Lord and therefore he left all to follow Jesus (Lk. 14:33). He picked up his cross (Lk. 14:27) and even loved Jesus more then his own family (Lk. 14:26). Judas was picked by Jesus specifically to cast out devils, heal, and preach (Matt 10:1-27). Judas was a friend Jesus trusted (Ps. 41:9; Jn 13:18), so Judas kept the money (Jn. 12:6; 13:29). Jesus told Judas that He was shedding His blood for him (Lk. 22:14-20), and previously said that His name was written in the Lambs book of life (Lk. 10:20). Jesus even said that Judas was one of His sheep (Matt. 10:1-4, 16), who received His truth (Matt 10:1-4, 8), who’s Father was God (Matt 10:1-4, 20), who even had a throne in Heaven upon which he would judge Israel (Matt. 19:28; Lk. 22:30). But then later we see that Judas became a devil (Jn. 6:70) and therefore it would have been better for him to have never been born (Mk. 14:21). He even began to steal money from the group (Jn. 12:6). Judas fell from his apostleship by his transgression (Acts 1:25) because He failed to do what Jesus picked him for. His name was blotted out of the book of life (Ex. 23:33; Rev. 3:5).

"Judas was sincere, when Christ chose him to the apostleship." John Fletcher

"Judas was at first a child of the kingdom and heard it said to him with th disciples, 'You shall sit upon twelve thrones' but at last he became a child of hell" St. Chrysostom

"For both Saul and Judas were once good...Sometimes they are at first good, who afterward become and continue evil; and for this respect they are said to be written in the book of life, and blotted out of it." St. Ambrose

Genesis 6:5 – “And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” (See also Gen. 8:21) quote

This is talking about the unconverted. This is not talking about those who have been changed and transformed by Jesus Christ. This verse is not saying that sanctification is not attainable in this life, or that moral perfect or purity of heart is not possible on earth.

Likewise Romans 3:10-18 is taking about the unconverted. Many apply these passages to everyone, but they are specifically talking about those who are not saved because it says they do not have the fear of God and they do not know the way of peace.

It is interesting that right after Genesis 6:5, in verse 6, it says that God repented of making mankind because he saw their wickedness. This implies that God did not know mankind was going to sin and that mankind was not created for the purpose of sinning. God created mankind to obey Him, not to disobey Him, which is why he sent the flood. This is a great text used for open theism.

Psalms 51:5 –“Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.”quote

A. This scripture is talking about David and his mother. It is not referencing all of humanity. It says nothing about Adam.

B. The event spoke of is the conception of David, not the birth of David. He is not saying that he was born a sinner, he is saying that his mother was in sin when she conceived him.

C. A strong case can be made that Ps. 51:5 is talking about the defilement of David’s mother, because of a previous marriage to another man – a heathen.

1.) David had two half-sisters named Zeruiah and Abigail (1 Chron. 2:13-16).

2.) The father of David’s half sisters was not Jesse but Nahash (2 Sam. 17:25).

3.) Nahash was an Ammonite king (1 Sam. 11:1; 1 Sam. 12:12).

(4.) David’s father was Jesse, not Nahash. But the Father of David’s half sisters were daughts of Nahash. This could explain why Nahash showed kindness towards David (2 Sam. 10:2).

(5.) David’s mother was most likely the second wife of Jesse. The first wife of Jesse would have been considered superior to his second wife which had been either the concubine or wife of a heathen king.

(6.) This would explain why David’s half brothers viewed themselves as superior to David, and why David was considered prideful for thinking he was as good as them (1 Sam. 17:28-30).

(7.) This may explain why David was not called before Samuel the prophet amongst the other sons (1 Sam. 16:11).

(8.) David’s mother apparently had a good relationship with the Lord (Ps. 86:16; 116:16). But she would have been, in the eyes of Jewish law, considered defiled by her previous relationship with an Ammonite (Num. 25:1,2; Deut. 7:3,4; 1 Kings 11:2-4, Ezra 9:2; Neh. 13:23,25; 2 Cor. 6:14-17).

D. The context of David’s prayer of repentance is not consistent with David making an excuse for his adultery, “I was born this way”. In true repentance, an individual takes full responsible for their sin, offering no excuses for justification. David was not blaming his sin on his birth. David was simply stating that even the circumstances of his birth were surrounded by sexual sin.

E. David said that he was “wonderfully” and “marvelously” made by God in the womb (Ps. 139:13-14). Therefore, he could not have been sinfully made by his mother in the womb. It is not wonderful to be born sinful or marvelous to be created evil.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 – “For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.” Quote

This might have been true in the days of Solomon, but it was not true of all generations. And this might be true of the unsaved, but it is not true of the saved. The Bible says that Joseph was a “just man” (Matt. 1:19), that those who are born of God “doeth good” (3 John 1:11), and the Bible says that whosoever abides in Christ “sinneth not” (1 John 3:6; 5:8). So in the New Testament “There are men that are just upon the earth, that doeth good, and that sinneth not”.

Romans 5:12-19 – “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.” Quote

“For as by one mans disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.” Romans 5:19:

A. If we are going to apply the first section of the passage unconditionally and universally, we must also apply the second section of the passage unconditionally and universally, since the language for both is the same. If the first section means mankind is universally and unconditionally condemned in Adam, then the second section would mean that mankind is universally and unconditionally justified through Jesus.

B. By Adam’s disobedience of eating from the tree, Adam provided all mankind with the opportunity of choosing to be sinners, since moral knowledge has been granted to all men. A sinner is an individual who voluntarily chooses contrary to their moral knowledge. The result of one man’s disobedience (eating from the tree of knowledge) was that many were made sinners (men have chosen to be sinners).

C. By Christ’s obedience of hanging on the tree, Christ has provided all mankind with the opportunity of choosing to be saved, since remission of sin has been offered to all men upon condition of their repentance and faith.

D. The word “made” used in these passages is not referring to a constitutional change, but referring to a conditional position which requires the consent of the will. Being a sinner is conditional upon choosing to sin. Likewise, being justified is conditional upon choosing to repent and believe.

You can read my entire commentary on Romans 5 at LibraryofTheology.com in the writing section, in the original sin section, called “The Fall of Mankind”.

Ephesians 2:1-3 – “And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.” Quote

A. The word nature can describe a man’s God given constitution: (Rom 1:26; 1:31; 2:14; 2:27; 2 Tim 3:3). But this is just dirt and it is created by God. Therefore it cannot be sinful in and of itself.

B. The word nature can describe a man’s self chosen character, custom, habit, or manner of life: (Jer. 13:23; Acts 26:4; 1 Cor 2:14; Eph 2:2-3; Gal 2:14-15; 2 Tim 3:10; 2 Pet 1:4). This is voluntary and has to do with the heart. Therefore moral character, or sinfulness, can belong to this type of nature.

C. The context of this particular passage is talking about a former manner of life, addressing a previous lifestyle. "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world... among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of the flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind..." Eph. 2:2-3

D. To say that they are “children of disobedience” (Eph. 2:2, 5:6) and “by nature children of wrath” is to say the same thing.

E. That which brings the “wrath” of God is voluntary moral character, not involuntary constitutions.

F. A sinful nature is moral not physical, it is a person’s self chosen character and not his God given constitution. A man’s heart (will) can be sinful, but a man’s body can only be an occasion of temptation. Though continual choices of self-gratification, man has developed a habit of sin.